# Ben Silbermann at Startup School SV 2016 > `[00:00:07]` Good morning. Nice to see everyone here. `[00:00:07]` 早上好。很高興見到這里的每一個人。 > `[00:00:12]` My name is Ali Rughani. I\'m a partner at Y Combinator. I run our late stage fund. It\'s called The Combinator Continuity fund and I am I couldn\'t be happier to be here today to conduct a fireside chat with Ben Silbermann. `[00:00:12]` 我叫阿里·魯加尼。我是 Y Combinator 的合伙人。我管理著我們的后期基金。它被稱為 Combinator 連續性基金，我非常高興今天能在這里和 Ben Silbermann 進行一次爐邊聊天。 > `[00:00:31]` Who is you guys all probably know is the co-founder and CEO of Pinterest. `[00:00:31]` 你們都知道誰是 Pinterest 的聯合創始人和首席執行官。 > `[00:00:39]` Ben has a fascinating background and a set of diverse experiences of entrepreneurship. `[00:00:39]` 本有著迷人的創業背景和豐富的創業經驗。 > `[00:00:46]` So we\'re thrilled to have him here. `[00:00:46]` 所以我們很高興有他在這里。 > `[00:00:48]` And I want to welcome him here today. `[00:00:48]` 今天我想歡迎他來這里。 > `[00:01:02]` Ben thank you for coming. Thanks for having me. Well there are a lot of bright a lot of people in this very bright light smokes. `[00:01:02]` 本，謝謝你的光臨。謝謝你邀請我。嗯，有很多明亮的人，很多人在這個非常明亮的燈光下吸煙。 > `[00:01:10]` Ben let me just start first by asking you to tell us a little bit about Ben before Pinterest sort of what you were interested in growing up through college and what you graduated college and then went and did. How that kind of all led to today. `[00:01:10]` 本，讓我先讓你在 Pinterest 之前告訴我們一些關于 Ben 的事情，比如你在大學期間對成長感興趣，以及你大學畢業后做了些什么。這一切都導致了今天。 > `[00:01:25]` Sure. Well I grew up in Iowa I grew up outside its Moine and a lot of a lot of time when I grew up I I thought I was going to be a doctor. Both my parents are doctors. Both my sisters are doctors and so it didn\'t even feel like really a choice. But as a kid I loved all kinds of things. You know I love nature. I loved I love stories I love. I love fiction and I love movies. And then when I went to school I went to I went to Yale and I was premed but I didn\'t really have a specific plan other than maybe I should be a doctor. So that was sort of my my first chapter. And then somewhere along along that line I thought geez I don\'t know if medicine is for me. And I feel like medicine is one of those professions where if you think that you actually know that. And so I just you know I started I start taking other classes I ended up I ended up getting a major in Political Science. But the other thing that happened was college was the first time that I had like my own laptop with high speed internet which makes me sound super old. Things change fast. But I remember actually that being a really transformative experience just be able to get on get access to all kinds of information I just became it sounds really corny I just kind of fell in love with the internet. I loved the idea that everyone could access the same information no matter where you were in the world. And I would always play these kind of what if games like whenever I saw a problem I mean like like you know what if what if the Internet could help solve this problem. So I think that\'s that\'s how I really get excited about technology. So you didn\'t drop out. `[00:01:25]` 當然。嗯，我是在愛荷華州長大的，我是在愛荷華州郊外長大的。很多時候，當我長大的時候，我以為我會成為一名醫生。我父母都是醫生。我的兩個姐妹都是醫生，所以我覺得這不是一個真正的選擇。但當我還是個孩子的時候，我喜歡各種各樣的東西。你知道我愛大自然。我愛的故事。我喜歡小說也喜歡電影。然后當我去學校的時候，我去了耶魯，我是預科生，但是除了也許我應該成為一名醫生之外，我并沒有具體的計劃。這是我的第一章。然后沿著這條線，我想天哪，我不知道藥是否適合我。我覺得醫學是其中一個專業，如果你認為你真的知道這一點的話。所以我，你知道，我開始參加其他的課程，我最終獲得了政治學的專業。但發生的另一件事是大學，那是我第一次像我自己的筆記本電腦一樣高速上網，這讓我聽起來超級老了。事情變化很快。但我記得，事實上，作為一種變革性的體驗，只要能夠接觸到各種各樣的信息，我就變成了-聽起來真的很老套，我只是有點愛上了互聯網。我喜歡這樣的想法：無論你身在何處，每個人都可以獲取相同的信息。我總是玩這種游戲，比如每當我看到一個問題，我的意思是，就像你知道，如果互聯網可以幫助解決這個問題。所以我想這就是我對科技真正感到興奮的原因。所以你沒有輟學。 > `[00:03:03]` You got your degree. You graduated and then you took. You didn\'t start a company right away. Is that right. `[00:03:03]` 你拿到學位了。你畢業了然后你選了。你沒有馬上成立公司，對嗎？ > `[00:03:08]` No. You know I decided not to be a doctor. My parents were like Okay hope better figure you got something to do to make money. And I took a job at a consulting firm. And I took that job mainly because they they offered it to me. And I went to WashingtonD.C. and I worked in consulting and worked inI.T. group. And then along the way I was kind of working with friends and building these toys on the Internet. And I say toys because they weren\'t they weren\'t really intended to be these serious businesses or anything I was just really curious about what we could do. So I\'m one of the first things that I had started making in college. It was it was a tool that that let you try on glasses online because you know my parents I spent a lot of time there opthamologist and they had an optical shop attached and you know people were there because they couldn\'t see and so I would I would watch all these people go in and try all these Blancs glasses and then they try to look in the mirror but they couldn\'t see them. They\'d ask how do these look. And I was thinking oh you know maybe maybe we could build software to help people see that maybe they could do it online. So instead of having like 12 pairs of glasses that were available you could have the whole access that was an example of kind of one of these toys. I worked with a friend of mine named Altay and we made a tool to help his band promote themselves all over the country all on the side while you had a day job. All projects. Yeah. So yeah that\'s how he kind of got started more and more playing with things than just focusing on building a serious company. `[00:03:08]` 不。你知道我決定不當醫生了。我的父母就像好的，希望你能做點什么來賺錢。我在一家咨詢公司找了份工作。我接受那份工作主要是因為他們提供給我。我去了華盛頓特區，我在咨詢公司工作，在 I.T.小組工作。一路走來，我和朋友們一起工作，在網上制作這些玩具。我之所以說玩具，是因為它們并不是真正想成為這些嚴肅的企業或任何事情，我只是好奇我們能做些什么。所以我是我在大學開始做的第一件事之一。這是一種可以讓你在網上試用眼鏡的工具，因為你知道我的父母，我在那里花了很多時間在那里，他們在那里開設了一家光學商店，你知道人們在那里是因為他們看不見，所以我會看著所有這些人走進去，試著戴上這些布蘭克的眼鏡，然后他們試著照鏡子，但他們看不見他們。他們會問這些看起來怎么樣。我在想，哦，你知道，也許我們可以建立軟件來幫助人們看到，也許他們可以在網上做。因此，與其擁有大約 12 副可用的眼鏡，你還可以擁有整個通道，這就是其中一種玩具的例子。我和我的一個朋友 Altay 一起工作，我們制作了一個工具來幫助他的樂隊在全國各地推廣自己，而你只有一天的工作。所有項目。嗯所以是的，這就是他開始越來越多地玩東西的方式，而不僅僅是專注于建立一家嚴肅的公司。 > `[00:04:40]` Now you\'re clearly creative you clearly had a sense of like the Internet could be something interesting that solves his problems but you weren\'t technical so how did you like overcome that in the early days in terms of actually be able to kind of create the things you wanted to create. `[00:04:40]` 現在你很有創造力，你顯然有一種感覺，就像互聯網可能是一種有趣的東西，可以解決他的問題，但你并不是技術上的，所以你喜歡怎樣在早期克服它，因為你實際上能夠創造出你想要創造的東西。 > `[00:04:53]` Yeah well you know how it always I would always start off thinking about an idea and I had some friends that were technical and then none of us were super technical so we\'d always just sort of chip in and learn what we needed to do to get the next part. So learning about things like product design. Would you like simple like front end coding and just you end up learning like little bits at a time. And for me at least it\'s a lot easier to learn things when there\'s something that you want to build than doing it in a very abstract kind of classroom way. `[00:04:53]` 是的，你知道，我總是從一開始就想到一個想法，我有一些技術上的朋友，然后我們中沒有一個人是超級技術型的，所以我們總是切入其中，學習我們需要做些什么才能得到下一部分。所以學習產品設計之類的東西。你會喜歡簡單的像前端編碼，而你只是結束學習像小比特在一次。至少對我來說，當有你想要建立的東西時，學東西比用一種非常抽象的課堂方式學習要容易得多。 > `[00:05:20]` Got it. When did you or how did you decide OK I\'m going to now leave my job and jump out and commit fully to starting a company. `[00:05:20]` 明白了。你是什么時候決定的，或者你是怎么決定的？我現在要離開我的工作，跳出工作，完全致力于創辦一家公司。 > `[00:05:33]` You know it is a while. So when I was inD.C. I was like always reading these blogs. I was like I\'m here typing in Tech Crunch. I was like whoa like something is going on on the Internet. And I just really wanted to be part of it so I didn\'t feel like I could start a company. But I thought maybe a good half step would be to try to work at a company that I really respect. And so I really wanted to work at Google. So I moved out to California and I got a job of Google. And the only job I was qualified for at the time was online sales and operations which was kind of like customer support. And I worked there for about a year and a half and all the while I\'m like oh Chinese civil projects on the side and it was actually my my girlfriend at the time who is now my wife. She was one of a kind of gave me the kick in the pants you know like normal I was like oh wouldn\'t it be cool I should build this. Like here\'s what it\'s going to look like. Here\'s the early prototype. She\'s like You know Ben maybe you should either do it or stop talking about it. `[00:05:33]` 你知道這是一段時間。所以當我在華盛頓的時候，我就好像一直在讀這些博客。我就像在這里打字一樣。我就像互聯網上發生了什么。我真的很想成為它的一部分，所以我不覺得我能創辦一家公司。但我想，也許一個很好的一半是嘗試在一家我真正尊重的公司工作。所以我真的很想在谷歌工作。所以我搬到加利福尼亞去找了一份谷歌的工作。當時我唯一能勝任的工作是在線銷售和運營，這有點像客戶支持。我在那里工作了大約一年半，一直以來，我就像中國的土建項目一樣，實際上是我當時的女友，現在是我的妻子。她是那種給我踢褲子的人之一，你知道，我就像正常人一樣，哦，不是很酷，我應該做這個。就像這個樣子。這是早期的原型。她就像你知道的，本，也許你要么去做，要么停止談論。 > `[00:06:29]` That turned out to be really good advice. `[00:06:29]` 這是非常好的建議。 > `[00:06:32]` So you left Google. What was the first thing you tried to build. `[00:06:32]` 所以你離開了谷歌。你要做的第一件事是什么。 > `[00:06:36]` Well immediately when I left I hooked up with some friends of mine and I was still interested in medicine latent interest in medicine so we wanted to build a tool that would help people gather your medical records across your family you could kind of build a family tree and everyone could update it. And I started with these friends that were kind of on a break period before they got theirPh.D. but in a few months then they got therapy you know like hey you know like we aPh.D. we\'re going to be professors and you\'re sort of on your own. And then you know I was kind of like in the void. It wasn\'t the team sort of fell apart. Yeah. Like one guy went on to become an extraordinarily successful researcher out of them. Another guy went to medical school. And so was sort of wandering around it wasn\'t even the trough of despair. It\'s like not doing not doing that much. But I hooked up with a friend of mine from college and at that time the iPhone had just recently come out and actually I remember so vividly like watching that keynote on this laptop and be like holy holy cow this change everything. They hooked up with a friend to build products for the iPhone. And one of those products our idea was like why don\'t we take all those catalogs in your mailbox and put them on the phone because catalogs suck and phones are great but you still want to shop. `[00:06:36]` 當我離開的時候，我和我的一些朋友勾搭在一起，我仍然對醫學有興趣，所以我們想要建立一個工具，幫助人們收集你家人的醫療記錄，你可以建立一個家譜，每個人都可以更新它。我從這些朋友開始，他們在獲得博士學位之前有一段休息時間，但過了幾個月，他們就接受了治療，你知道，就像我們是博士一樣，我們將成為教授，而你則是一個人。然后你知道我有點像在虛空中。這支隊伍不是分崩離析的。嗯就像一個人后來成為了一個非常成功的研究人員。另一個人上了醫學院。四處游蕩，這甚至不是絕望的低谷。就像沒做那么多。但是我和我大學里的一個朋友勾搭上了，那時 iPhone 剛剛問世，實際上我記得非常生動，就像在這臺筆記本電腦上看主題演講一樣，就像天啊，這一切都改變了。他們和一位朋友勾搭在一起，為 iPhone 制造產品。我們的想法之一就是，為什么我們不把所有的目錄放在你的郵箱里，放在電話上，因為目錄很爛，手機很棒，但你還是想購物。 > `[00:07:48]` And that was our first our first idea that we really formed into that company and that was yeah the product was called toat. And we knew that to build that we would have to raise a little bit of money. `[00:07:48]` 這是我們的第一個想法，那就是我們真正成立了那家公司，是的，我們的產品叫做 toat。我們知道，要建立這樣的基礎，我們必須籌集一點資金。 > `[00:07:59]` We set out to raise money on that premise and that was the first time you\'d raise money for two. `[00:07:59]` 我們開始在這個前提下籌集資金，這是你第一次為兩個人籌集資金。 > `[00:08:05]` It was the first time that I\'d been in charge of raising the money and done it really formally and it was a total shit show to be honest. You know the other part of this was this is this is 2008. So the economy has collapsed and we would just like go to these meetings and and these folks would just be like Why are you even here. `[00:08:05]` 這是我第一次負責籌集資金，而且是正式的，老實說，這是一場徹頭徹尾的狗屁表演。你知道，這是 2008 年。所以經濟崩潰了，我們只想去參加這些會議，這些人就像你為什么會在這里一樣。 > `[00:08:25]` And I\'m like I don\'t know you took the meeting like I was like Why am I here. Laughter. `[00:08:25]` 我不知道你參加了會議，就像我為什么在這里一樣。笑聲。 > `[00:08:32]` But it was really it was a really tough time and so you know we went through the full like West Coast investors. We went to the east coast struck out on the West Coast struck out on the west coast not for lack of effort. `[00:08:32]` 但是這真的是一個非常艱難的時期，所以你知道我們經歷了像西海岸的投資者一樣的過程。我們去了東海岸，在西海岸，不是因為缺乏努力。 > `[00:08:41]` I `[00:08:41]` i > `[00:08:41]` think that everyone who could have gotten call got a call we would cold call people out of alumni directories like whether we went to the school or not like Slick\'s like a wealthy a wealthy individual. `[00:08:41]` 認為每個本來可以接到電話的人都會打電話給校友名單上的人，比如我們是否去過學校，就像斯利克像個有錢人一樣。 > `[00:08:54]` Laughter. `[00:08:54]` 笑聲。 > `[00:08:55]` And we ended up doing something quite desperate which is I ended up finding all the college business plan competitions that had loosely written rules about attendance in that school. `[00:08:55]` 我們最后做了一件非常絕望的事情，那就是我最終發現了所有的大學商業計劃賽，這些競賽的規則都很松散，都是關于在那所學校上學的。 > `[00:09:06]` And I entered one and we got second place in the prize for second place was a meeting with a venture capitalist who was an alumni of the school and they were able to give us our first couple hundred thousand dollars which to me felt like all the money in the world. I couldn\'t believe it. It was like I was looking at the bank account. And that\'s how we got it started. `[00:09:06]` 我進入了第一名，我們獲得了第二名，第二名是一位風險投資家，他是學校的校友，他們給了我們最初的幾十萬美元，我覺得這是世界上所有的錢。我真不敢相信。就像我在看銀行賬戶。我們就是這樣開始的。 > `[00:09:26]` Amazing. And there were two of you at the time. Yep. So what do you do with money. Did you go out and hire some people. We did. We paid the awesome engineers they were helping us out. `[00:09:26]` 令人驚嘆。當時你們有兩個人。是的。那你拿錢做什么。你是不是出去雇了一些人。我們做了。我們雇了他們幫助我們的優秀工程師。 > `[00:09:36]` And we set out to build this. This iPhone app. But at the time iPhone development was really slow. Not only was it slow to develop it was also slow to get approved. And so even after we built this app and we were we were ready I thought I was going to be like in the movie. Like you push like release and then like all these things we couldn\'t even get the thing approved. And so at the same time you know I met another friend in New York named Evan and we had this other idea that was again it was kind of like one of these toys. `[00:09:36]` 我們開始建造這個。這個 iPhone 應用程序。但當時 iPhone 的發展非常緩慢。這不僅是緩慢的發展，它也是緩慢的獲得批準。因此，即使在我們構建了這個應用程序之后，我們已經準備好了，我想我會像在電影里一樣。就像你推動發布，然后就像所有這些事情一樣，我們甚至無法獲得批準。所以，同時，你知道我在紐約遇到了另一個叫埃文的朋友，我們又有了另一個想法，那就是，它有點像這些玩具中的一個。 > `[00:10:04]` Looking back there were elements of all these other projects we\'d worked on but it was this toy in the toy was like you know what if there was a tool to let you collect things online. You had some of these elements of this catalog on the phone. I mean had some things that I just loved as a kid I was a big collector as a kid. Evan was too. And we started to build build this toy. And ironically like that toy is what would would later become the whole company. `[00:10:04]` 回顧一下，我們曾經做過的所有其他項目都有一些元素，但是玩具中的這個玩具就像你知道的，如果有一個工具可以讓你在網上收集東西的話。你在電話里有一些這個目錄的元素。我是說，當我還是個孩子的時候，有一些我喜歡的東西，我小時候是個大收藏家。埃文也是。我們開始制造這個玩具。具有諷刺意味的是，像這樣的玩具后來就會成為整個公司。 > `[00:10:28]` Right. `[00:10:28]` 對。 > `[00:10:29]` So that so then sort of morphed into Pinterest Yeah I mean the thing morphed as a generous word to launched and no one really used it and then and then Pinterest was kind of it was it was getting done. We thought it was really cool. And so we thought Hey let let\'s put this thing out into the world. And that was sort of how this switchover happened. `[00:10:29]` 這樣就變成了 Pinterest，是的，我的意思是，這個東西變成了一個慷慨的詞來發射，沒有人真正使用它，然后 Pinterest 就這樣完成了。我們覺得很酷。所以我們想，嘿，讓我們把這個東西放到世界上去吧。這就是為什么會發生這種轉變。 > `[00:10:48]` So when you reflect back and think about the early days of Pinterest what was the problem that you\'re trying to sort out there who are you trying to. `[00:10:48]` 所以當你回想起 Pinterest 的早期，你想要解決的問題是什么，你想找的是誰。 > `[00:10:57]` Was it something you\'re building at the time for a narrow group of people or for everyone. What was that thing that you were trying to solve. `[00:10:57]` 是你當時在為一群人或每個人建造的東西嗎？你想要解決的是什么？ > `[00:11:04]` Well gonna sound like kind of the worst business person. We just thought it would be cool for ourselves at first. You know I am a really curious person Evan. He was an architect at the time you starting in architecture school in Columbia like buildings not computers. And we thought he had this tool took to collect things for yourself that would be really useful and not only that in those collections can kind of give you a window into how other people saw the world. We just thought that would be that would be really a really fun product that people might be interested in. And so I think what initially motivated us that early team was we really enjoyed using the product for ourselves. And when we released it it actually was not a runaway success. It grew really really slowly but part of what kept us going is we thought it was a really cool a really cool product that we enjoyed. We thought well maybe there are people like us who would also enjoy it. `[00:11:04]` 聽起來像是最糟糕的商人。我們只是覺得這對我們自己來說是很酷的。你知道我是個很好奇的人埃文。他是一名建筑師，那時你在哥倫比亞的建筑學校開始學習，喜歡建筑，而不是電腦。我們認為他用這個工具為自己收集了一些非常有用的東西，而不僅僅是在這些收藏品中，你可以看到別人是如何看待這個世界的。我們只是認為這將是一個非常有趣的產品，人們可能會感興趣。所以我認為最初激勵我們早期團隊的是我們真的很喜歡為自己使用這個產品。而當我們發布的時候，它實際上并不是一個失控的成功。它的增長非常緩慢，但部分原因是，我們認為這是一個非常酷的產品，我們喜歡。我們認為，也許會有像我們這樣的人也會喜歡它。 > `[00:11:54]` Yeah. `[00:11:54]` 是的。 > `[00:11:56]` How did you find your first users. How did you know you\'ve talked a little about like trying to market it and being scrappy about that. Can you talk about that. `[00:11:56]` 你是如何找到你的第一批用戶的？你怎么知道你已經說了一點，比如試圖推銷它，并且對此很不爽。你能談談這個嗎？。 > `[00:12:05]` Yeah so we released it and I did probably what everyone does. The first thing you do is you e-mail all your friends and you kind of hope they can and no one really got it to be totally honest with you. Neither are the people on the East Coast that avenue nor the people on the west coast. They just didn\'t really get it. They were really polite. `[00:12:05]` 是的，所以我們發布了它，我可能做了每個人都做的事情。你做的第一件事就是給你所有的朋友發電子郵件，并希望他們能做到，而且沒有人能讓他們對你完全誠實。東海岸的人和西海岸的人都不是。他們只是不太明白，他們真的很有禮貌。 > `[00:12:23]` They were like oh looks interesting very interesting. `[00:12:23]` 他們好像哦，看起來很有趣，很有趣。 > `[00:12:29]` But there was a small group of people that were enjoying it and those folks were not who who I think typically you think about early adopters. They were there were folks that I grew up with people that were using it for regular stuff in their life. What was my house can look like. You know what kind of food do I want to eat. Things like that and we really thought you know where those people congregated. Who\'s their community. And I ended up you know going to a conference where a lot of the blogs that people were reading about those things a lot of those bloggers gathered and I met and I met these bloggers and they seem like the kind of people who would really enjoy it. So he organized a marketing event with those bloggers where we had each of them introduced the service to their audience. `[00:12:29]` 但是有一小群人正在享受這種生活，而我認為那些人并不是你通常認為的早期采用者。他們有一些人，我成長的人，在他們的生活中經常使用它的人。我的房子是什么樣的。你知道我想吃什么樣的食物。我們真的以為你知道那些人聚集在哪里。誰是他們的社區。最后，我去參加一個會議，會上人們讀到很多博客-很多博客作者聚集在一起-我遇到了這些博客作者，他們似乎是那種真正喜歡這些博客的人。所以，他和那些博客作者一起組織了一場營銷活動，我們讓他們每個人都向他們的聽眾介紹這項服務。 > `[00:13:11]` I mean how many users do you have at this point. `[00:13:11]` 我的意思是現在你有多少用戶。 > `[00:13:13]` How small is Pinterest is like few hundred 100 so very early if you ask pretty early on. And that\'s how we got started. But in between I mean we did all kinds of honestly pretty desperate things like I used to walk home and I was in Palo Alto and I\'d walk by the Apple store and I would like stand an Apple store and just like change all the computers to say Pinterest and I\'m like kind of stand in the back like what is Pinterest thing. `[00:13:13]` 如果你很早就問的話，Pinterest 有多小，就像幾百百個一樣早。我們就是這樣開始的。但在這段時間里，我的意思是，我們做了各種各樣的非常絕望的事情，比如我過去常常走回家，我在帕洛阿爾托，我會經過蘋果商店，我想站在一家蘋果商店，就像改變所有的電腦，說 Pinterest，我就像站在后面，就像 Pinterest 的東西一樣。 > `[00:13:41]` Blowing But you know slowly we started we started to get folks who really love this service. `[00:13:41]` 但你知道，慢慢地，我們開始吸引真正喜歡這項服務的人。 > `[00:13:54]` And then since it took us so long to get those users we cared about them so much. I used to have my cell phone on all the customer support e-mails I would take customer support calls all the time. So when the service would go down I had this problem where everyone would start calling me be like hey can\'t get my pins. And I don\'t know I think that for me there were these two lessons and in one it\'s that you know there\'s a stereotype of where early adopters come from and they should be these technology forward folks and I just think that that idea is really outdated now. I think that so many people have these amazing computers in their pocket. So many people are of it that early adopters are coming from everywhere and it could be taxi cab drivers in India more Midwestern folks were planning their home. And I think if we been really dogmatic about wanting kind of cool Silicon Valley people to like it we probably wouldn\'t have made the service that we made. I mean I think there was a lesson in really taking care of users. And so all the time. You know I would sit in coffee shops and ask people to try this service and just try to wash them and see what they were doing to see where we could smooth out the edges and improve the service. `[00:13:54]` 由于我們花了這么長時間才得到那些用戶，我們非常關心他們。我以前在所有的客戶支持電子郵件上都有我的手機，我會一直接客戶支持電話。所以當服務停止的時候，我遇到了這個問題，每個人都會開始打電話給我，就像嘿不能得到我的引腳一樣。我不知道，我認為對我來說有兩個教訓，在其中一個，你知道，有一種關于早期采用者來自哪里的刻板印象，他們應該是那些技術進步的人，我只是認為這個想法現在已經過時了。我認為很多人的口袋里都有這些神奇的電腦。很多人都是這樣的，所以早期的采用者來自世界各地，而且可能是印度的出租車司機，更多的中西部人在計劃他們的家。我認為，如果我們真的教條主義地想讓硅谷的人喜歡它，我們可能就不會像我們所做的那樣提供這樣的服務了。我的意思是，我認為真正照顧用戶是一個教訓。所以一直都是這樣。你知道，我會坐在咖啡店里，讓人們嘗試一下這個服務，試著洗一下，看看他們在做什么，看看我們能在哪里理順邊緣，改善服務。 > `[00:15:02]` And what did you do would you ask for user ideas on user feedback and would that inform what you were building. Or was it more the case that you would observe and continue to build something that felt good for you. `[00:15:02]` 你做了什么？你會問用戶對用戶反饋的想法嗎？這能告訴你正在構建什么嗎？或者更多的情況是，你會觀察并繼續建立一些對你有好處的東西。 > `[00:15:14]` It was a little bit of both. `[00:15:14]` 兩者都有一點。 > `[00:15:16]` You know one one thing is that what people say they want in what people mean can sometimes be different. So really common thing that I would ask people sitting in a coffee shop I\'d be like hey you know what. Why don\'t you try to create a board or try to find something. And then I would ask them to do it or I\'d ask them to look at it button push it. And right before I\'d say you know what do you expect to see on the other side of that. And then right after I like is that what you saw. And if it was different I\'d be like they should we should fix that up. And so I do think that listening to the people that use the service is incredibly important. But you have to use judgment to decide what parts of the product you really want to invest in. `[00:15:16]` 你知道的一件事是，人們說他們想要什么，人們的意思有時是不同的。非常普通的事情，我會問坐在咖啡店里的人，我會像嘿，你知道嗎。你為什么不試著創建一個板或者找一些東西。然后我會讓他們去做，或者讓他們看一下，按下按鈕。就在我說你知道你希望在另一邊看到什么之前。就在我喜歡之后你看到的就是這個。如果不一樣的話，我會覺得他們應該解決這個問題。所以我認為傾聽使用這項服務的人是非常重要的。但是你必須用判斷來決定你真正想投資的產品的哪些部分。 > `[00:15:55]` And you still do that today. I mean Pinterest now has millions and millions of users. How do you still carry that forward in terms of caring for users and you personally kind of observing or getting feedback from them. `[00:15:55]` 你今天仍然這么做。我的意思是 Pinterest 現在有數以百萬計的用戶。在關心用戶方面，你是如何做到這一點的，你個人如何觀察或者從他們那里得到反饋呢？ > `[00:16:06]` Yeah I mean when when we started growing and we realized there are users that we couldn\'t fully understand the first person perspective because maybe they were in a different country or they were on a different infrastructure. We started to build out a research team and today we have researchers that go around the world and bring people into the office to do that kind of work. We obviously look at data as one tool. We ran experiments as one tool but after you have all that there are still these pieces where you have to use your judgment you take all these signals and you put something out and sometimes it works. It doesn\'t. And you have to go figure that out. `[00:16:06]` 是的，我是說，當我們開始成長的時候，我們意識到有些用戶我們不能完全理解第一個人的觀點，因為他們可能在一個不同的國家，或者他們在一個不同的基礎設施上。我們開始建立一個研究團隊，今天，我們有了一些研究人員，他們走遍世界各地，把人們帶到辦公室去做類似的工作。顯然，我們把數據看作一個工具。我們作為一個工具進行了實驗，但是在你擁有了所有這些東西之后，你仍然需要用你的判斷，你拿出所有這些信號，你發出一些信號，有時它會起作用。不是的。你得去想辦法。 > `[00:16:40]` Right. So from those early days how long did it take. `[00:16:40]` 對。從早期開始，花了多長時間。 > `[00:16:44]` Before you thought you were onto something that could be really really big that you\'d build something that could be used for lots and lots of people. `[00:16:44]` 在你認為你在做一件可能很大的事情之前，你會建造一件可以為很多人使用的東西。 > `[00:16:53]` You know what\'s funny is like I don\'t think there is this one moment like we were growing every month. And I think it wasn\'t until we went out to go raise some more money. So you felt like things were going well. We want to use money as a tool to grow the business that we are first forced to say you know how big do we think this can be. And I remember feeling kind of this dual feeling. One is like my nature isn\'t to be like this thing is going to be really. But I\'m talking to an investor who became a mentor of mine so you know why not. Now why couldn\'t it be if you thought about it that way how would it change. And that\'s how we think about it today. You know today when I talk to the company I say you know we want to build the world\'s catalog of ideas. The tool that everyone uses to discover things in their everyday life. And in a weird way sort of raising the bar on on what the company can\'t be ends up attracting people who are more ambitious and are more creative in solving big problems. `[00:16:53]` 你知道有趣的是，我不認為有這樣的時刻，就像我們每個月都在成長。我認為這不是\直到我們出去籌集更多的錢。所以你覺得一切都很順利。我們想用金錢作為一種工具來發展我們首先不得不說的業務，你知道我們認為這會有多大。我記得這種雙重感覺。一個是我的本性，不是這樣的，這東西會是真的。但我正在和一位成為我導師的投資者交談，所以你知道為什么不可以。如果你這么想的話，它會怎么改變呢？我們今天就是這么想的。你知道，今天當我和公司談話時，我說你知道我們想建立世界上的想法目錄。每個人在日常生活中發現事物的工具。以一種奇怪的方式，在某種程度上提高了公司不可能吸引更有雄心、更有創造力的人來解決大問題的標準。 > `[00:17:50]` So between the time of kind of launching pentru as you\'re working on two you decided that\'s not getting much traction let\'s launch Pinterest something it feels great to us. Did you. Between that time of sort of launching Pinterest and growing it as you mentioned and getting to your series. Did you have multiple smaller kind of fundraisings or how did you finance the company. `[00:17:50]` 所以，當你開始做兩件事的時候，你就覺得 Pinterest 沒有多大的吸引力，讓我們開始關注 Pinterest 吧。你覺得很棒嗎？就像你提到的那樣，在這段時間里，你開始了 Pinterest，然后開始了你的系列節目。你有多個規模較小的募捐活動，或者你是如何為公司融資的。 > `[00:18:12]` We did a little bit more money from some other angel investors but we also were not spending very much money. So the team is incredibly small. How small I think it was like five five six people OK. Who was bringing your own computer. It was in the two bedroom apartment where one of the rooms is rented to a guy who didn\'t work at the company. And I think that\'s because we\'d been without money for so long it just didn\'t really know. We didn\'t really know how long it would take. So everything was kind of through that lens of like how do we make sure that we just have what we can to keep going for us. I don\'t think fundraising has ever been like a goal. It\'s just this tool that you use to get to the next step and actually I think a problem that\'s happened sometimes recently is people confuse money the tool with the goal of the company. The goal is not to raise a bunch of money. The goal is to get the resources you need whether there are talented people or whether they\'re users or whether they\'re a piece of technology. To then achieve and build the product and service that you want. `[00:18:12]` 我們從其他天使投資者那里多賺了一點錢，但我們也沒有花很多錢。所以這個團隊太小了。有多小，我想大概有五個人，六個人，好吧。他帶了你自己的電腦。那是在一間兩居室的公寓里，其中一間房是租給一個沒有在公司工作的人的。我想那是因為我們很久沒有錢了，只是不知道。我們不知道要花多長時間。所以，所有的一切都是通過這樣的鏡頭，我們如何確保我們有了我們能堅持下去的東西。我不認為籌款是一個目標。這只是一個工具，你用它進入下一步，實際上，我認為最近發生的一個問題是人們把金錢、工具和公司的目標混為一談。目的不是籌集一大筆錢。我們的目標是獲得你所需要的資源，不管是有才華的人，還是他們是用戶，還是他們是一項技術。然后實現并構建您想要的產品和服務。 > `[00:19:12]` So let\'s talk about attracting people. One of the things that you\'ve said you\'ve been quoted as saying is that when you\'re trying to attract people to your startup great people to your startup people are attracted. They don\'t want a guarantee of success necessarily. They want a guarantee of an adventure and that was a sort of approach you took in recruiting people in. Can you talk about that. `[00:19:12]` 那么，讓我們談談吸引人的問題吧。你說過的一件事是，當你試圖吸引人加入你的創業公司時，優秀的人會被吸引到你的創業公司。他們不一定想要成功的保證。他們想要一次冒險的保證，這是你在招聘員工時采取的一種方式。你能談談這個問題嗎？ > `[00:19:35]` Yeah you know really early on like I didn\'t have like a network of engineers in Silicon Valley right. So we did all kinds of things similar to marketing. You know the first engineer one of the first ones we hired I put an ad on Craigslist. He replied. And then as we started to get a little bit of momentum we would try to just use the assets we had and what we had with this shitty apartment on California Avenue with a patio. And we\'re like our asset is going to be this apartment because people see it deafeningly and know that we haven\'t made it yet. But if we throw barbecues there they\'re going to know we\'re we\'re cool people. So we would throw these barbecues every Friday. It was like Bring your own food. `[00:19:35]` 是的，你很早就知道，就像我在硅谷沒有一個工程師網絡一樣，對吧。所以我們做了各種類似于市場營銷的事情。你知道，第一個工程師，我們雇傭的第一個工程師之一，我在 Craigslist 上登了一則廣告。他回答說。然后，當我們開始獲得一點動力時，我們會試著利用我們擁有的資產，以及我們在加利福尼亞大道上有一個露臺的破爛公寓所擁有的東西。我們就像我們的資產將成為這套公寓，因為人們看到它震耳欲聾，并且知道我們還沒有成功。但是如果我們在那里舉辦燒烤，他們就會知道我們是很酷的人。所以我們每個星期五都會舉辦燒烤會。就像自己帶食物一樣。 > `[00:20:15]` And then we would bring beer and actually we recruited a lot of people there and I think that the people that we loved are recruiting kind of intuitively you kind of recruit people that are a little bit like yourself when you get bigger you want to recruit people that are very different from yourself. But I loved I love people that at their core they were they were builders they wanted to be known for what they built not what they said. They tended to be curious about a ton of different things but then deep in something. And so now our first engineers you know one of the guys in his first senior game like what have you built. And he he pulled out his phone. He built like magic tricks for his kids. He built these crazy games. He was building these crazy robots in his garage. One of our next really engineers he was actually a cartoonist. That that stopped cartooning he became an engineer and that kind of became the calling card of a lot of our early folks. I\'m people that we\'re almost outsiders to technology. And I think that\'s served us really well as a company. `[00:20:15]` 然后我們會帶來啤酒，實際上我們在那里招募了很多人，我認為我們所愛的人在招聘的時候，直覺地說，你會招募一些和你自己有點相似的人，當你變大的時候，你想招募和你很不一樣的人。但我愛的人，在他們的核心，他們是建設者，他們想被人知道他們所建的，而不是他們所說的。他們往往對一大堆不同的東西感到好奇，但后來又深深地陷入了某種東西之中。所以現在我們的第一批工程師，你認識的其中一個人，在他的第一場高級比賽中，比如你做了什么。然后他拿出了他的手機。他為他的孩子們做的就像魔術一樣。他制造了這些瘋狂的游戲。他在車庫里建造這些瘋狂的機器人。我們下一個真正的工程師之一，他實際上是個漫畫家。這停止了漫畫，他成為了一名工程師，這也成為了我們早期許多人的名片。我是那種認為我們幾乎是技術外來者的人。我認為，作為一家公司，我們做得很好。 > `[00:21:18]` I think today with Pinterest. You know you have millions and millions of users. Are you still trying to solve the same problem today as you\'re originally trying to solve. How is your conception of Pinterest as a product changed. `[00:21:18]` 我想今天和 Pinterest 在一起。你知道你有數以百萬計的用戶。你現在還在試圖解決和你最初想要解決的問題一樣的問題嗎？你對 Pinterest 作為一種產品的概念是如何改變的？ > `[00:21:33]` No I think a lot of the problem is stay the same. But the scope of the ambition has changed. I always think like if I could go back in time and say like oh you know Ben 2008 you know he had a million users who\'d be happy I\'d be like really overjoyed. But for me there\'s always this widening gap between where you are and in the world of the ambition you know today when I think about Pinterest I mentioned that I have this idea of wanting to build the catalog of ideas. And that to me means like what if there was a tool where everyone publish ideas that you could use into one place. What if it was so personalized that understood your preferences and every time you used it it became more customized to you. And what if when you saw those ideas they had all the information you needed to make it happen. If it\'s a product you could buy it. If it\'s a recipe you could cook it. And I think there\'s something very very beautiful about that because because today there are a lot of services that try to give you objective answers to everything. You know if you ask google a question it\'ll return like a factually right answer very quickly. But there aren\'t as many tools that are fully devoted to helping you discover what\'s right for yourself. And in fact I think that a lot of technology is pushing people to project an image of who other people want them to be rather than giving them a space just to think about who am I. I mean I\'d love Pinterest to play a small role in doing that. I\'m for small things you know like like making dinner or maybe for big things like like designing your home or doing a big creative project and that\'s kind of my dream. But then how we\'re doing it. I couldn\'t have imagined one of the great perks of starting a company is that you get to hire people that are way better than you and all these other areas. And so we have computer vision folks. Now we have we have great engineers we have wonderful designers we have writers. I think that\'s one of the fun things about trying to assemble a team against a North Star goal. `[00:21:33]` 不，我認為很多問題是保持不變。但是野心的范圍已經改變了。我總是想，如果我能回到過去，說，哦，你知道，本，2008，你知道，他有一百萬用戶，他們會很高興，我會非常高興。但對我來說，你所處的位置和你今天所知道的野心世界之間的差距不斷擴大，當我想到 Pinterest 時，我提到了我想要建立一個想法目錄的想法。對我來說，這意味著，如果有一個工具，每個人都可以在一個地方發表你的想法，那該怎么辦呢？如果它是如此個性化，能夠理解您的喜好，并且每次您使用它時，它都會變得更適合您。如果當你看到這些想法時，他們掌握了你所需要的所有信息來實現它。如果它是一種產品，你可以買它。如果這是一個食譜，你可以做它。我認為這其中有一些非常美妙的地方，因為今天有很多服務試圖給你客觀的答案。你知道，如果你問谷歌一個問題，它就會像一個事實正確的答案一樣快速返回。但是沒有那么多的工具能幫助你發現什么是適合你自己的。事實上，我認為很多技術都在推動人們塑造一個別人想讓他們成為什么樣的人的形象，而不是給他們一個空間來思考自己是誰。我的意思是，我希望 Pinterest 能在這個過程中扮演一個小角色。我是為了一些你知道的小事，比如做晚飯，或者是做一些大事，比如設計你的家或者做一個有創意的大型項目，這是我的夢想。但是我們是怎么做的呢。我無法想象創建一家公司最大的好處之一就是你可以雇傭比你和其他所有領域都好得多的人。所以我們有電腦視覺的人。現在我們有了偉大的工程師，有了優秀的設計師，我們有了作家。我認為這是一個有趣的事情，試圖組成一支球隊對抗一個北極星的目標。 > `[00:23:22]` Now that you\'ve built this really meaningful product that millions tens of millions of people or hundreds of millions of people use you reflect back what was your moment of greatest discouragement. `[00:23:22]` 現在你已經建立了這個真正有意義的產品，數百萬人或數億人在使用它，你會回想起你最沮喪的時刻。 > `[00:23:32]` What was your sort of lowest point in the history of Pinterest. How did you get through it so many like I think everyone has real moments of self-doubt. `[00:23:32]` 你的興趣史上的最低點是什么？你是怎么熬過去的，就像我想每個人都有真正的自我懷疑的時刻。 > `[00:23:46]` You know I can think of a whole bunch of times where there were things that were going on outside like we didn\'t think we could scale the service. I actually remember a day we had three engineers and we had to Shahd the database. `[00:23:46]` 你知道，我能想到很多次，在外面發生的事情，就像我們認為我們無法擴大服務一樣。我記得有一天，我們有三名工程師，我們不得不建立數據庫。 > `[00:23:59]` And I was like What is this thing going to work. And they\'re like well we have to do it and I\'m like what could go wrong. Well we could lose everyone\'s user data forever. So that sounds really bad. It\'s not that bad because we\'re guaranteed to lose it if we don\'t do something like I. It\'s not not the most inspiring thing. I mean there are there all these moments but I think you just kind of keep going. And in one of the one of the real privileges that I\'ve had in Silicon Valleys I\'ve gotten to meet a lot of these entrepreneurs who are honestly my idols like people that I read about like they were fictional characters like Robinson Crusoe or something and finding out that actually they got where they got by making a series of mistakes and then learning from them and moving forward. That was a really long lesson for me to learn. You know as I said you my parents are doctors like you know Facebook is famous for having these signs. Move fast and break things like when you go to the doctor\'s office. Like when you go into the car you don\'t want to sign fast enough. `[00:23:59]` 我就像這東西會起什么作用。他們就像，我們必須這樣做，而我就像可能出錯的東西。我們可能永遠失去每個人的用戶數據。聽起來很糟糕。沒有那么糟糕，因為如果我們不做這樣的事情，我們肯定會失去它。這不是最鼓舞人心的事情。我的意思是，有很多這樣的時刻，但我認為你只是繼續前進。在硅谷，我有一種真正的特權，我遇到了很多企業家，他們都是我的偶像，就像我讀到的那些人，就像羅賓遜·克魯索之類的虛構人物，然后發現他們犯了一系列錯誤，然后向他們學習，然后繼續前進。對我來說，這是一堂很長的課。你知道，就像我說的，我的父母是醫生，就像你知道，Facebook 因為有這些征兆而出名。動作要快些，像去醫生辦公室時那樣。就像當你上車的時候，你不想簽得足夠快。 > `[00:24:59]` So that mentality took me a long time and part of I think my job as the leader of the company is to make sure everyone in the company feels like they can take risks and learn from them and that process of learning is more important than avoiding errors at any given point. `[00:24:59]` 所以這種心態花了我很長時間，我認為作為公司的領導者，我的部分職責是確保公司里的每個人都覺得自己可以冒險，并從中吸取教訓，而學習的過程比在任何特定的時刻避免錯誤更重要。 > `[00:25:15]` I want to ask you about mentors and mentorship. Are there mentors that you have relied on. They made a difference. How did you find them and how important is that even it\'s been really important actually know I\'ve had different folks at different times. `[00:25:15]` 我想問你關于導師和導師的事。有沒有你所依賴的導師。他們起了很大的作用。你是如何找到它們的，即使是真的很重要，你也知道我在不同的時間有不同的人。 > `[00:25:34]` I mention there was an early investor there\'s a guy named Kevin Hart who founded the company Eventbrite. He was one of the first people that was really successful in Silicon Valley and it really took time to talk to me about things. I think there are other ventures that offer you support. Sometimes I cringe a little bit at sort of the life and death language used to describe startups because I think the biggest risk of a startup is is actually the founders becoming so discouraged they burned out. But if you go into it saying like survive or die like tying your personal like self self-worth to that how come of this company I think that only increases the peril of that happening. So I\'ve met friends. I mean they\'re not inventors are just people that are like hey things aren\'t going so bad like life keeps moving on. You know and now I\'ve said people many people who have seen companies that are bigger than the ones that we\'re building to ask them hey what should I look out for here. Just to maybe see around some corners. So all different forms so you\'ve been active about trying to develop develop that. Yeah I mean I think say that I\'m not under any illusion that I know how to run a company of this size like I\'ve never done it before. Not that many people have and so one of my one of my core jobs is to learn as fast as I can in starting companies. Just like anything else you learn by trying and failing and you learn by talking to people that might have succeeded before you. `[00:25:34]` 我提到有個早期的投資者，有一個叫凱文·哈特的人，他創立了 Eventbrite 公司。他是硅谷第一批真正成功的人之一，和我談論事情真的需要時間。我認為還有其他的風險為你提供支持。有時，我對用來描述初創企業的生死攸關的語言感到有些畏縮，因為我認為創業的最大風險實際上是創始人變得如此氣餒，他們精疲力竭。但是如果你想生存或者死亡，就像把你個人的自我價值和自我價值聯系在一起，我認為這只會增加發生這種事情的危險。所以我見過朋友。我的意思是，他們不是發明家，他們只是一個人，他們的生活不會像過去那樣糟糕。你知道，現在我曾說過，很多人見過比我們正在建立的公司更大的公司，問他們嘿，我在這里應該注意什么。只是想看看周圍的角落。所以所有不同的形式，所以你一直在積極地嘗試開發它。是的，我的意思是，我想說，我沒有任何幻想，我知道如何經營這樣規模的公司，因為我從來沒有這樣做過。不是很多人都有，所以我的核心工作之一就是在創業中盡可能快地學習。就像你從嘗試和失敗中學到的任何東西一樣，你也是通過與可能在你之前成功的人交談來學習的。 > `[00:26:53]` How has your job changed your day to day activities change from five person company that built the first version of Pinterest to a company with several hundred people a year run into the while there were some parts that are the same and some of them are different. `[00:26:53]` 你的工作是如何改變你的日常活動的，從建立 Pinterest 第一版的五人公司變成了一家每年有幾百人參與的公司，而有些部分是相同的，有些是不同的。 > `[00:27:08]` I mean I think that the founders always responsible for driving clarity on what you\'re building and why. And for talking about what is the standard culturally and objectively that people you want to bring in a company. I don\'t think that ever changes. I think what changes is that more and more your job becomes creating an organization and finding people that can build that and that will do it better than yours and also making sure that those people feel like they are part of that mission. They\'re not like building it for somebody else. And in really practical ways that means like I have to communicate a lot more. It means that I had to start to learn how to manage people and I say start and like that\'s I\'d never manage anyone before. As anyone who had managed can attest in those parts those parts have changed changed quite a bit. I know talking to lots of people that\'s changed when we were really small when we would get press inquiries. I was a pretty introverted person so I just wouldn\'t reply I\'d be like we\'re busy. `[00:27:08]` 我的意思是，我認為創始人總是有責任讓你弄清楚你在建造什么和為什么。從文化上和客觀上講什么是你想引進公司的人的標準。我不認為這種情況會改變。我想改變的是，越來越多的你的工作變成了創建一個組織，找到能夠建立這樣的組織的人，這將比你的工作做得更好，并確保這些人感覺自己是這一使命的一部分。他們不喜歡為別人建房子。實際上，這意味著我需要更多的交流。這意味著我必須開始學習如何管理人，我說“開始”，就像這樣，我以前從來沒有管理過任何人。任何人誰都可以證明，在這些部分已經發生了很大的變化。我知道和很多人交談，當我們很小的時候，當我們得到新聞咨詢的時候，這些人就變了。我是一個很內向的人，所以我不會回答，我會覺得我們很忙。 > `[00:28:10]` That was my strategy. It\'s like a new york times would come in and I\'d be like I\'m really busy right now. And that\'s not a good strategy. `[00:28:10]` 那是我的策略。就像“紐約時報”來了，我會覺得我現在真的很忙。這不是一個好的策略。 > `[00:28:23]` Do you how deeply are you involved in the product today and the design decisions or is that now that you\'ve hired so many great people. Are you a step removed from that. `[00:28:23]` 你有多深地參與了今天的產品和設計決策，還是現在你已經雇用了那么多優秀的人，你是否已經從這一點上走了一步？ > `[00:28:37]` So I\'m still involved in products. But you know my job isn\'t to literally pixel like pixel credit critic. You know the service it\'s hopefully to ask the right questions and get the teams to come up with better ideas. That\'s actually I think a hard transition for a lot of founders to make. But I think it\'s a really important one. At some point you have to not let go the product but have faith that the people you\'ve hired that are closer to the problem. I mean that you\'ve hired because they have great judgment because they\'re talented they\'re going to execute better. But your job is to sort of unify that into a singular product vision of it. `[00:28:37]` 所以我還在從事產品。但你知道我的工作不是像素信用評論家那樣的像素。你知道這個服務，希望能提出正確的問題，讓團隊想出更好的想法。事實上，我認為對于許多創始人來說，這是一個艱難的轉變。但我覺得這很重要。在某種程度上，你不能放棄產品，而要相信你雇傭的人更接近問題。我的意思是，你之所以錄用是因為他們有很好的判斷力，因為他們很有天賦，他們會執行得更好。但你的工作是把它統一成一個獨特的產品愿景。 > `[00:29:13]` One last question for you. It\'s a it\'s a squishy one. I wanted to ask you about culture at a company an organization and for you at Pinterest you know what. What is do you think actively about the culture of the company. What values is it based on and and how do you build that. How do you build it from being this tiny thing to this company now that I\'m sure you have employees who you don\'t know you don\'t know their names like what what what\'s the glue that binds. `[00:29:13]` 最后一個問題。這是一只它是一只毛茸茸的。我想問你在一家公司，一個組織的文化，對你來說，在 Pinterest，你知道嗎。你對公司的文化有什么積極的看法？它所基于的價值觀是什么，你是如何構建它的。既然我確信你的員工不知道他們的名字，比如粘合的膠水是什么，那么你是如何從這個小東西到這家公司的呢？ > `[00:29:44]` Well it is you know it\'s kind of it\'s a squishy topic when when you\'re small you don\'t have to write down your culture it just sort of takes care of itself. `[00:29:44]` 嗯，你知道這是個很棘手的話題，當你很小的時候，你不需要寫下你的文化，它只是在照顧自己。 > `[00:29:51]` I mean you were saying you hire people who love to build things and you know that through your recruiter you kind of have a certain dilemma. `[00:29:51]` 我的意思是，你是說你雇傭的人都喜歡建造東西，而且你知道，通過你的招聘人員，你會有某種進退兩難的境地。 > `[00:29:57]` That\'s right. Some parts of our culture are similar to others. Like I want people to be obsessed with the users that we build for the people that use our service. And so we have values around that. And we try to reduce every decision you like. What\'s what\'s really best for pinners. I would say the unique thing for us. The thing that might be different is I\'m really I\'m a really firm believer that for Pinterest the more diverse the skills that we have in the building the more diverse the backgrounds of the people that we hire the better the product will be. You know I think that you\'re kind of a sum of all your experiences and so when we build products I value engineering and we value design and we value writing and we value marketing very very deeply. We hire people that are multitalented and I\'m very interested in hiring people who don\'t share the same backgrounds to kind of fight the natural inertia that I described before you hire people like yourselves. I\'m very interested in hiring women. I\'m very interested in hiring underrepresented minorities. I\'m very interested in hiring people from outside the United States that bring different perspectives. Now because it\'s like a nice thing to do but because I genuinely believe that we will build better products if you can knit all of those ideas together into something unified. And so that\'s that\'s one thing that we value when we try to live and we try to push very very hard amongst our teams wonderful who we are. `[00:29:57]` 那是對的。我們文化的某些部分與其他文化相似。就像我希望人們癡迷于我們為使用我們服務的人而建立的用戶。所以我們對此有價值。我們試著減少你喜歡的每一個決定。什么才是最適合小人物的？我要說的是我們的獨特之處。可能不同的是，我真的非常堅信，對于 Pinterest 來說，我們在建筑中擁有的技能越多樣化，我們雇傭的人的背景就越多樣化，產品就會越好。你知道，我認為你是你所有經驗的總和，所以當我們建造產品時，我重視工程，我們重視設計，我們重視寫作，我們非常重視營銷。我們雇傭的是多才多藝的人，我非常有興趣雇傭那些不具有相同背景的人來對抗我在雇傭像你們這樣的人之前所描述的自然惰性。我對雇用婦女很感興趣。我對雇用代表不足的少數民族很感興趣。我非常有興趣從美國以外的地方招聘具有不同觀點的人。因為這是一件很好的事情，但我真的相信，如果你能把所有這些想法編織成一個統一的東西，我們就會生產出更好的產品。所以，當我們嘗試生活的時候，這是我們所珍視的一件事，我們試圖在我們的團隊中非常努力地推動我們是怎樣的人。 > `[00:31:17]` I think I speak for everyone we\'re so excited to see where you continue to take control. Thank you so much for joining us today. `[00:31:17]` 我想我代表每個人，我們很高興看到你們繼續控制著我們。非常感謝你們今天加入我們。 > `[00:31:22]` Thanks Reynolds. `[00:31:22]` 謝謝雷諾茲。